Topic: Splitsville, New York: a forum on New York's divorce system

hi i have been trying to get divorced in nassau county for the past year. i have been married for 22 years and have 5 children. my husband contested the grounds of the divorce (cruel and inhuman treatment)  and we had a trial which lasted 2 days. after airing all our dirty laundry i won the trial. the judge "named just a few" reasons why. my husbands attorney moved to reargue the trial. there is no such thing as rearguing a trial one can appeal a trial or reargue a motion or order but the judge allowed it and reversed her own decision. all this time we live in the same house I have a court order that he is not allowed in my bedroom so that is where i am most of the time. I offered him to divorce me on any grounds he chooses but he refuses. i just don't understand how the womens organization NOW thinks it is helping women by not having no fault divorce in NY. I will have to live the rest of my life married to this man who has not spoken to me in 5 years?something is wrong and needs to be fixed ASAP. anybody have any idea if no fault will ever pass in NY?

thanks

Dear Needdirection,

   As I am sure you understand, I cannot address the specifics of any particular case in a forum like this.  I can respond generally and say that courts often move much too slowly.   Child experts have spoken out about the need for faster resolutions of cases to better fit the time sense of children.   For a three year old, being separated from a parent for one year can seem like an eternity.  For a nine year old, a divorce that drags on for three years equals one third of the child's life!  For adults too, the process can seem endless leaving one feeling in limbo and unable to move on with one's life.   From my experience, parents often benefit from support groups with other parents going through difficult divorces.  I have been greatly impressed with the ability of parents faced with similar circumstances to offer support and advice to each other and to help see each other through these ordeals.  

Dr. Steven Demby

Below are comments that were posted to the topix site in response to the article. We have moved the comments here so that the discussion can continue in this dedicated forum. Thanks. --Ed.

 
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mercator

Coram, NY

Are you trying to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs for the law profession? When pols become ordinary people laws will be written so anyone can understand them. The pols mostly lawyers write convoluted language into laws to insure there economic survival.

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Laura

Centereach, NY

I was married for six months before my husband's mental illness took over and he stole all of our money, my jewelry, and became violent and a danger to my well-being. Over $30,000 in legal fees, $50,000 in stolen items that I will never get back, and two and a half years later, I still do not have a divorce decree due to the postponements and incompetencies of the New York State family court system. My story is the poster child for the disfunctional New York State divorce process.

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familydestroyed

Glen Cove, NY

Some Judges rule based on sympathy. So....if the person is mentally ill and clearly dying, there is no way in hell that you will get a fair trial --your family too will be destroyed.

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NoFault

Woodbridge, VA

Laura wrote:

I was married for six months ...

Wow. Who knew NY was still in the dark ages? This is sad. Couldn't you have gotten an annulment based on fraud or something like that? Didn't know he was mentally ill? I forget how that works. But back in the day, I'm talking the 50's this is how NY and its divorce laws were circumvented. Divorce in another state. Mother's husband, mentally ill. Had even been committed to Central Islip for a time. Went to NY lawyer. She had to fly to Birmington Alabama for a couple of days. Paperwork done. Divorced. Don't know what the deal was on residency requirements but that was all taken care of. All legal. Interesting.

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Bernie

Fort Pierce, FL

I agree 210% with mercator. The legislators (lawyers) are not going to stop this. This is another legal slush fund. Why the hell the politicians listen to lobbyists is beyond me. Oh yeah...Why is the Catholic Church lobbying? They should be clearing their ranks of deviant, gay, and ****sexual priests. Not trying to prolong totally dysfunctional relationships.

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Gen77

Mineola, NY

Actually, you've got it all wrong. The attorneys and the New York Bar Association fully support changing the law to allow no-fault divorce. The Catholic Church and some women's groups are the ones opposing the change. Not even lawyers like the nasty system in place in NY now.

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DivorcedandDestr oyed

East Setauket, NY

I wanted out of a dead marriage and initially we were separating fairly amicably .. then he went to a lawyer and everything changed .. next thing i received a summons he was suing me for custody of our two girls, child support & alimony ... it then dragged into 2 years of hell, particularly for my children as he began to see how he could use them to his advantage. Even at one point he got so crazy he was physically violent & locked me in a room. I begged judge, law guardian, everyone to do something about him before something bad happened. Nobody cared what he was putting my girls through .. the whole system is designed to keep couples fighting longer so it drags out longer and all the lawyers win. We lost everything, savings, proceeds from sale of house .. everything went to lawyers, law guardian, therapists .. you name it. In the end, I have sole custody, he got nothing. He can't even sign up those girls for a dance lesson without my permission. We both ended up not only broke, but in debt up to our eyeballs in lawyers fees. That divorce cost me about $75,000 but what it did to my children you could never put a price on. If ever a system needed to be overhauled, it's NY's divorce laws. It's absolutely sickening what they put people through. Anyone who profits from that system should be ashamed of themselves .. and there are plenty of them.

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alphsone

Charleston, SC

DivorcedandDestroyed wrote:

I wanted out of a dead marriage and initially we were separating fairly amicably .. then he went to a lawyer and everything changed .. next thing i received a summons he was suing me for custody of our two girls, child support & alimony ...

Of course lawyers want the business. Lawyers are businessmen and women -- more fighting means more fees: keep fighting.
The rule is 1/3 for the lawyers,judges and expert hanger-ons; 1/3 for the woman, 1/6th for the children and the remaining for the man.

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DivorcedandDestr oyed

East Setauket, NY

alphsone wrote: 
Of course lawyers want the business. Lawyers are businessmen and women -- more fighting means more fees: keep fighting.
The rule is 1/3 for the lawyers,judges and expert hanger-ons; 1/3 for the woman, 1/6th for the children and the remaining for the man.

Never assume all women make out in the deal and get 1/3 .. I left with sole custody of my kids and that's about it. His child support payments are peanuts because during the divorce he worked part time hours. He even had it written into our agreement that he will bear no financial responsibility for their education whatsoever .. everything for those kids is on my shoulders but he loves to parade himself around as father of the year. And this system created this mess. At 40, I had to rebuild my life all over again. And people wonder why I'm still not dating 4 years later?? I have my life with my two girls and after what they have been through, they are entitled to all of my time outside of when I am working. So never assume the woman "gets" everything and the man gets nothing.

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Loyal Democrat

Hicksville, NY

I would suggest the system was at the receiveing end of a mess two consenting adults created.

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DivorcedandDestr oyed

East Setauket, NY

Very easy to sit back and make comments ... remember I said initially our separation was fairly amicable .. we were getting through it on good terms because of our children ... but when the lawyer became involved that he contacted, that's when the system entered our situation and created havoc. He believed everything his lawyer told him he could "get" out of me, only to end up with nothing two years later. The lawyers "got" what they wanted out of us. Mediation is the best answer for anyone going through divorce, not litigation.

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The Innocent

West Babylon, NY

This is a question for any of those who would like to see no-fault in this state:

When one spouce who is currently in a 10+ year marriage decides they want out of their marriage (and assuming nothing is wrong except the love/connection is no longer there), BUT the other spouce wants to try and make things better between them - mainly becasue there are 2 children at stake & a family unit to try & keep together - who then protects the other spouce & the children when you have a no-fault law that allows one partner to disolve & destroy the family unilaterily?

PS: I'm not a lawyer, not a religious man, not a therapist, not a reporter, nor lobyist; just a plain old guy looking to give his children the same life that my parents gave to me - a stable one. One that may not have always been happy or sad or easy or conflict free. But, one that has had meaning: Fight harder than a lawyer or a politician to keep it together!!

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Esteeben

Jamaica, NY

would be being a widower be easier then being a divorcee?

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Been There

East Setauket, NY

The Innocent wrote:

This is a question for any of those who would like to see no-fault in this state:
When one spouce who is currently in a 10+ year marriage decides they want out of their marriage (and assuming nothing is wrong except the love/connection is no longer there), BUT the other spouce wants to try and make things better between them - mainly becasue there are 2 children at stake & a family unit to try & keep together - who then protects the other spouce & the children when you have a no-fault law that allows one partner to disolve & destroy the family unilaterily?

PS: I'm not a lawyer, not a religious man, not a therapist, not a reporter, nor lobyist; just a plain old guy looking to give his children the same life that my parents gave to me - a stable one. One that may not have always been happy or sad or easy or conflict free. But, one that has had meaning: Fight harder than a lawyer or a politician to keep it together!!

Unfortunately,if one spouse wants out, and is not interested in saving whatever may be left, why would the other spouse want to hold onto someone who no longer wants them? In this case, the no fault law would help even more, because it helps to not prolong and drag out the inevitable .. which is ultimately better for any children in this situation. The problem that happens in most cases involving children is that the parents do not think of their children's needs first ... they think they are putting the kids first, but they are usually not. Even when it is not your fault that the marriage is ending and it's not what you want, it's for sure never the children's fault ... so your own sorrow at the marriage ending has to take a back seat to doing what's right for the children .. and that is simply remaining civil to one another and not putting the kids through the trauma of witnessing their two parents fight through years of litigation.

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Never quit trying

West Babylon, NY

What if one spouce does not want the divorce, simply becasue they are hopeful that things in the relationship will get better & more importantly the one spouce is not selfish & is trying to keep the family together? Who then protects the innocent? With no-fault, the innocent get what? A divorce, days & holidays to see your own kids, half your assets, a country that's being built on instability, etc.. Just becasue the other 49 states have no-fault, doesn't necissarily make it the ultimate solution. The core resolve is to stay focused on the kids, not each others self indulgences, desires, affairs, etc..

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The Innocent

West Babylon, NY

would be being a widower be easier then being a divorcee?

Tough question, but I would have to say it would be easier for the children. I believe it would make them stronger in life, as opposed to feeling many differnt negative feelings of their parents being seperated from each other & having to be shuffled around & argued over.

Just my opinion & Sorry if you've lost your loved one.

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jake

Stormville, NY

The NY family court system is broke and it wont be fixed as it is a system designed by lawyers for the betterment of lawyers .It has become a cash cow for lawyers at the expense of destroying families finacially and emotionally. Dont think for one minutes the judge or lawyers cares about you. Dont think for one minute the Commission of Judicial Revue cares about you or your spouse , after all the Commission is headed by a divorce lawyer.Dont think for a minute your lawyer is competent as most arent.Dont think for a minute the judge cares about your case, the judge has his own agneda getting the case settled so he wont need to make a decession and take the chance of being over ruled in appeals court.BIGGEST ADVICE I CAN GIVE IF YOU PLAN A DIVORCE IS DO NOT WAIVE YOUR RIGHT TO A JURY..JUDGES AND LAWYERS DONT LIKE JURY'S CAUSE THEY WILL ACTUALLY HELP BRING THE CASE TO A RAPID CONCLUSSION. THE JURY THEY CANT IGNORE AND WE ALREADY KNOW THEY WILL IGNORE YOU JUST TO RUN UP LEGAL FEE'S.THE SYSTEM IS A DISGRACE ESPECIALLY IN NY AND TRAMPLES ON CONSTUTIONAL RIGHTS. DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND KEEP YOUR DIVORCE OUT OF THE COURTS. DONT LET YOUR EGO'S GET IN THE WAY OF COMMON SENSE AND DO TRY USING A MEDIATOR AS YOU WILL ONLY LOOSE TRMEMENDOUS AMNOUNTS OF MONEY BY ENTERING THE CORRUPT LEGAL SYSTEM OF NEW YORK STATE.

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Been There

East Setauket, NY

Never quit trying wrote:

What if one spouce does not want the divorce, simply becasue they are hopeful that things in the relationship will get better & more importantly the one spouce is not selfish & is trying to keep the family together? Who then protects the innocent? With no-fault, the innocent get what? A divorce, days & holidays to see your own kids, half your assets, a country that's being built on instability, etc.. Just becasue the other 49 states have no-fault, doesn't necissarily make it the ultimate solution. The core resolve is to stay focused on the kids, not each others self indulgences, desires, affairs, etc..

Again, if one spouse no longer wants to be married, then there is no marriage left. Why keep trying for something that is no longer there? You believe you are thinking about your kids but you are not, you are actually thinking about what's unfair to you .. you said it yourself "With no-fault, the innocent get what? A divorce, days & holidays to see your own kids, half your assets ..." While it does suck that you don't want the divorce, no matter what the children need you to be the better person and deal with it the best you can. If you & your spouse can come out with a civil relationship, then you would most likely get to see those kids more than what the court-ordered visitation calls for. Once you have a good relationship, she can give you the kids for visitation at her discretion. And ultimately that is healthier for the kids .. not forcing someone to stay in a marriage they don't want to be in any longer. Kids can see right through that. Let it go and do what's right for the kids.

Well after reading the previous post I now realize my expectatiotions of having my divorce settled and over with after we officially filed in December 2007 is a pipe dream. Athough the are no children involved in my case, my stbx refuses to settle, so he would rather delay and run up legal fees to spite me. His lawyer is costing him on average $5000 grand a month. Mine stopped billing me because he saw that my husband is only doing this to pressure me. He in fact said "your husband is sick" but of course my husband's lawyer is happy...

Since my husband won't settle, and I can't afford to leave my home I must put up with court appearances. In a sad and weird way the two of us could go our separate ways but if one partner is determined to use the system as an extention of his control issues the other party must cave in to unreasonable settlement of fight for their rights. I am chosing to fight for my rights. In this economy I can't really afford not to. 

It's a dsyfunctional sysytem because it is not based on logic but the whims of angry tempermental spouses..and the only ones who make out are the lawyers. You would think a spouse would want to settle and move on with their lives, but maybe some spouses truly enjoy the drama of going to court..it makes them feel in control of their future ex's destiny.

This sums up exactly what I am going through. Because my stbx refuses to settle..I am now must run up legal bills to settle. I suppose in his mind, if he settles, he loses money..so by refusing we both will lose money. I wish someone could explain what is the mental switch that clicks in a partner's head that wants to retaliate by making the lawyers wealthier? I also think it's pride, because one each partner takes that warpath they are too proud to say 'this is stupid..let's find a settlement.'

Going through a divorce at present time.The corruption of these lawyers is ridiculous.Never mind the gender bias a father/husband has to face.My soon to be ex,can violate every court order without reprocussion.Meanwhile,I am in contempt based on false allegations.I had temporary custody of 3 of my 4 daughters,all 4 have been physically and mentally abused,but the one that was visiting with her mother was being hit on visitation.She told the law guardian,The law guardian in turn told my oldest daughter to take pictures upon visitation returns.Then the law guardian told us not to force her to go if she didnt want to.A few weeks later they took my daugter from me.The law guardian had set me up.I was a fool.And my lawyer wouldnt go against the law guarian.So I got Another lawyer to help get my daughter back.They promised me the world until they got a $10,000 retainer,then basically proceeded to work on the opposing counsels side.This is just a tip of on iceberg.I have much more.And basically if all 3 attys are against me theres nothing I can do except grieve and sue after litigation is complete.I cry every night for the 2 little girls who are stuck with thier mother.They are being abused and neglected.They both fight with me when they have to go back with thier mother.My 3 year old hugs my leg and says"I stay with you daddy,I scared my mommy,mommy hurts me."This is just a small portion of some of what my daughters and I have enured.I have been financilly run into the ground by my ex.I now have to represent myself.But I will not give up on my girls.I will grieve,sue,go public and anything else I have to do to hold everybody accountable so others do not have to endure this corruption.If anybody would like to comment or give me advice or help me,please feel free.I need all the help I can get.This court system needs alot of fixing!

I have lived the nightmare that is our dysfunctional legal matrimonial obliteration system here in NY for nearly a decade.

The toll so far:

One Chapter 7

One 11 yr old child who is an  emotional mess

A father being forced to choose between continuing a cycle of finanical failure and remaining in proximity to his child here on LI or being forced to move elsewhere to escape the obscene cost of living that sees 50% of his monthly income go for rent.

That also means he is being forced to leave his daughter in the care and custody of a woman who should not have custody of a parakeet, but thanks to the aforementioned system populated and controlled by sycophant attorneys who get rich at the expense of their clients, this woman is free to continue raising this child as an emotionally co-dependent and socially isolated victim of the whole replusive situation.

This child's mother forces her to live in a house that is so filthy and cluttered that the child has NEVER been able to host a friend inside her house. At age 11.

But with a Nassau County Child Protective System that was nearly complicit in the homicides of three innocent children in New Cassel earlier this year, engaging the serivces of CPS would likely accomplish nothing. 

This child's mother is so emotionally co-dependent on her own mother (grandma to the child) that grandma is "needed" to help get the child (plus another half-sibling age 7) off to school EACHAND EVERY DAY.

This child's mother has for more than a decade been engaging in depression-induced shopping sprees, hoarding useless junk which now sits collecting dust in at least two storage units (at a cost of hundreds of dollars per month).

The mother has also recently taken to obtaining merchandise via her employee discount from her "major retail" employer, and turning around and flipping that same merchandise for her own profit on Ebay. 

Day in and day out, this child's mother feeds this child an endless supply of calorie and fat-laden fast food (pizza, hot dogs, Boston Market on a "good" night) because the mother patently refuses to cook even a half-way decent meal, even though the mother works only 30 hours per week. The number of decent meals the mother has prepared in the last 5 years for this child can literally be counted on one hand.

And what can I, the father of this adorable, sweet 11 yr old do about it?

Thanks to our decrepit, sycophant-ruled legal system, which is open only to those with wallets as deep as the Marianas Trench, NOT A DAMN THING, thank you very much.

Other than be forced to move out of state because my total annual compensation, while MORE THAN ADEQUATE to live fairly well in other parts of the country, leaves me nearly impoverished here, because 50% of said compensation goes for a 600 square foot 2-bedroom apartment.

And my ex and her husband are in the same financial boat I am with AT LEAST 40% (and probably more) of their total income going to their $3000 monthly rent of an 80 yr old 1200 square foot house with a basement that leaks every time we get a half-inch of rain.

So the child is victimized emotionally and financially by her own mother on a daily basis.

If I sound bitter, it's because I am after years of being forced to sit idly by and watch my ex-wife destroy our daughter, bit by bit, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. And she KNOWS the system won't touch her.

Lest anyone think I'm doing a "hatchet job" on a poor, innocent woman, I'm attaching two pics of the conditions my daughter has lived in every day for her entire life. 

One pic is her prior residence which they moved from over two years ago, and the other is from the current residence.

I feel very sorry for my child, and for all the children who are victimized daily by parents who failed them, and by a system which fails the parents and children due to the unabashed avarice of those who control it. 

Attached Media:

Dear Needdirection,

     As I am sure you understand, it is not possible to comment on the specifics of any particular case in an open forum such as this.   So my comments are somewhat general.   You are right to express concern about how lengthy the court process can be.   Child specialists have noted that children have a very different sense of time than adults, and the court process is often not sensitive to the child's time sense.   For example, being separated from a parent for a year can seem like an eternity for a young child.   A court proceeding that drags on for three years, represents one third of a nine year old's life.   For adults too the seemingly inevitable delays and postponements can be very frustrating and leave one feeling in limbo, unable to move on with one's life.   From my own experience, I have seen the benefit of support groups consisting of other parents going through difficult divorces.    I have been impressed with the ability of the parents in these groups to share experiences, ideas, and to give each other genuine emotional support.   Otherwise you can feel like the only person you know going through this hell.   Getting good support is so important to help one be able to hang in there for the sake of one's children.  

Dr. Steven Demby

 Here are some questions for our panelists from Newsday Op-Ed Editor Leslie Seifert, inspired by the reader comments:

On the issue of finding "fault": Don't parents need to process and understand what has occurred in the marriage?

Dr. Demby said earlier: "While [expressing emotional distress] satisfies deep emotional needs, especially for the parent who feels the most injured by the other parent’s actions, it does not keep the focus on the important question: how will the post-divorce family be re-structured to be most supportive of the children’s needs?"

Similarly, Steven Carlson wrote, "The less conflict the child is exposed to during the divorce, the less emotional harm the child will suffer. Kids are primarily affected by how their parents divorced – not why they divorced."

But couldn't it be useful for parents to think about who did what and why in the collapsing relationship? If parents don't try to understand this, they won't learn much from the experience. This could ultimately hurt their children, as they go on to other relationships, or never resolve the one that the child came from. Isn't a psychological processing of the relationship also supportive of a child's needs?

On some level, could the question of fault be a useful idea for parents trying to "process" what has happened. And what are variations on this concept that might be helpful to the family overall (rather than just ignoring these conflicts)?

I sympathize with the pain and anger that the comments about New York's divorce system reflect.

A number of comments have blamed lawyers for the failure of New York to enact no fault. Some lawyers are very adversarial and promote conflict. I feel compelled to point out, however, that bar associations throughout the state have been the leaders in seeking to enact no fault. The lawyers are not the problem- it is the Catholic Church and certain women's groups, as previous posts have pointed out.

A number of posts have also raised concerns about the outlooks and ruling of individual lawyers and judges. Parents can, however, opt out of the adversary process through collaborative law, mediation and other alternatives to litigation. Today, they have more dispute resolution options than ever before.

Most judges will tell you that they strongly prefer parents resolve their disputes rather than rule on them. It is not because the judges are lazy and don't want to rule Rather, they know that they are strangers to the family- no matter how much information they get in a trial- and should not replace parents in making decisions for children. Thats the parents job.

Mandatory parent education and mediation would help encourage parents not to subject themselves and their children to the delays and disempowerment of the adversary system that they should resolve themselves around a kitchen table or in a conference room, not a courtroom.  

Andy Schepard  

A further post concerning the need of parents to process "fault" for the dissolution of the marriage. I am not a psychologist, but do think it is an important need. We all should come to terms with our strengths and weaknesses as spouses, parents and human beings and a failed relationship is a major opportunity to do that.

There is, however, a major difference between processing fault through therapy and counseling and reflection and the fault divorce system. The fault divorce system encourages (indeed requires) one spouse to focus blame on the other party, and discount his or her own role in the marital dissolution. The fault system requires that the plaintiff in the divorce be blameless and the other to be the "guilty" party. If the plaintiff in a divorce action also commits adultery, for example, he or she cannot get a divorce from the defendant, as divorce is reserved for the innocent.

In my view, focusing all blame on one spouse in legal filings does not encourage a person to come to terms with their role in the end of a marriage, or to look at the end of the marriage as a failed opportunity for both former partners.

Andy Schepard 

Leslie Siefert raises a very important point.   Robert Emery, a psychologist and divorce researcher, has written that there are four tasks to getting a divorce:  the legal divorce, the financial divorce, the severing of the spousal relationship, and the re-structuring of the parenting relationship.  To really resolve a marriage successfully is not just a legal process, it involves all four tasks.   Resolving the spousal relationship means coming to terms with the end of the marriage and this is a very emotional process.   It helps when a spouse is able to give him or herself the space to reflect on the marriage relationship, what was good, what wasn't, what was each person's role in the marriage coming apart, and what can be learned for future relationships.    However, I definitely do not think that deciding on the legal grounds for divorce is where this type of self-reflection takes place.   When fault is contested in court, it is not about self-reflection or learning for the future.   It is about blaming and/or seeking some advantage in the adversarial maneuverings.   The healthy self-reflection, or joint reflection and review of the relationship, is not what the court process is designed for.   In mediation or collaborative practice divorce these emotional issues can sometimes be touched on constructively.   Or they can be dealt with in individual or couples' divorce counseling. 

 Dr. Steven Demby        

No fault divorce should be low on the priorities of divorce reform. The children have threatened suicide, developed eating disorders, and are self mutilating. The true issue is child custody. Laws should be enacted to entitle each parent to equal time with the children, joint legal and physical custody. Additionally child support laws should be changed to recognize parents (mostly fathers) who spend substantial time with their children. Additionally parents receiving child support should be required to document at least 50% of the money being spent directly on the children.

Having been trough a bitter Nassau County divorce, I learned first hand how emotionally draining it is for everyone involved, especially children. Lawyers remarked they never saw so much paper in all their careers. The cost of our divorce exceeded $160,000 and took two years. Child custody is still an issue.

The problems start early in family court where temporary orders of protection are issued without any attempt to verify facts. All one has to do is go there, ask for an order, come up with any story stating you feel threatened, wait around the better part of a day and be granted a stay away order. One is now removed from their house and their children. Should you attend a little league game you’re arrested for contempt of court, which further ruins your cause. On the other hand if you don’t make any contact with your children you are considered to be abandoning them. The trail to get to the facts in these cases often occur months later, by then much damage is already done.

This alienation is further aided by Child Protective Services with also ignores facts and disposes of cases the easiest way it knows how – do nothing and close them. A simple call to Albany and brief letter persuaded the state to dispose of Nassau’s baseless CPS findings. No fair trail was even required, that’s how outrageous the false claims were.

When one files for divorce and requests child support again one’s word is taken as fact, no supporting evidence needed. In my case my wife overstated my income by $60,000 (significant on top of a $100,000 income), and was awarded “child” support based solely on the fraudulent claim. Left out of the equation were some very significant facts; I was no longer employed at the time of the filing (due to downsizing), and spouse had resigned a $90,000 a year job just prior to filing solely to increase her odds of gaining support. Once again the case is heard months after the fact. Once the “child” support was reduced I was given a credit for the nearly $10,000 in over payments, a credit I was never allowed to use.

Now the court antics start. Judge Falanga learns this is a highly contested divorce. Child custody is the main issue. Judge Falanga ‘asks’ us (not orders) to work out a schedule ‘before leaving the court house’. Wife offers every-other-weekend, I want every other week. Her and her attorney leave the courthouse with the issue unresolved. No penalty for that. Another month goes by, next appearance judge Falanga ‘advices’ us to meet with Lisa Aganasi to mediate a solution. Wife and I agree to let Lisa Asansi to interview the child and see how they feel. Wife changes her mind the next day again without penalty. We are now ordered to a forensic psychologist.  An estimated cost of $8,000 to be paid solely by me out of my severance pay.  The forensic psychologist recommend equal time with both of us. Yet nothing happened.

Forensic psychologist meets with both spouses and children at least twice individually and once to judge the interaction between each parent and the children. Wife is diagnoses with several personality disorders, children request more time with me. Again nothing is done. The judge can’t read this report he ordered because wife won’t consent to it. Our older child is now in therapy after threatening suicide at school.  Finally a law guardian, Cheryl Kreger is appointed to our case. Ms Kreger meets with the children as states they want to continue to live with their mom. Under questioning Ms Kreger admits she never asked the child that question. She never offered every other week with each parent either. She also failed to communicate with daughters therapist. Ms Kreger also overlooks wife’s diagnosis of mental illness.

The case drags on and on with constant bickering and trash talk from wife’s attorney,  Howard Leff, costing our family $1000/hr for the privilege. The children are still stressing. Oldest daughter now hospitalized for an eating disorder. Still no one cares.

Finally, after spending over $100,000 on just my costs I cannot go any further, Judge Falanga orders a trial, then has no time for one. Then he threatens to run up our costs by making us sit idly by for 4-5 hours while our attorneys our on the clock. We attempt, and finally succeed at an ‘agreement’.  More like one was shoved down my throat.

Now I have less custody at a lower frequency than before. I must maintain a suitable house for my children in the same school district as their mom so I can have over night on school nights. I spend roughly 40% of the time with the children but must pay %100 of the child support. It’s hard to entertain kids when even movie tickets would run for the four of us. Despite the fact the children are to receive over $4000 and month in child support they often come over in dilapidated clothes, their pockets are empty, and I’m expected to take them to birthday parties (no present supplied of course), theme parks, and other general things a dad would like to do with his children. I can’t afford it. Meanwhile wife surrounds herself with the latest in HDTV’s, manicures and professional massages. The kids receive no allowances and are often forbidden to enjoy company of their friends.  These children are 15, 13, and 11.

They want to spend more time with me, this is even echoed by their therapist. My oldest is cutting herself. They often must tag along with their mom for an entire weekend while she sleeps with her out of state boyfriend in the presence of our children. I offer to keep them here with me while she dates, but my offers are violently rejected. I’ve asked for more time with the children and receive threats of reduced time in return. If the children speak up they are told their mom will have me arrested if they come over my house. They are also threatened with losses of other privileges if they talk more about it. My oldest jumped from a moving car to escape one of her mother’s beatings. Does this sound like resolution to anyone?

No-Fault divorce – who cares – lets straighten out the children first.

I filed for divorce in June of 2005. My mistake had to go for a hair folicle test which came back possitive for cocaine and pot (I only knew about the pot which I didn't mind because it made him less of a monster). The forensic report reads that he is an addict, DSM1V anti social personality disorder and "developementally retarted" She recommended supervised visitation which doesn't matter because the forensic report stupidly enough does not come out untill the trial.  Now, three years later, the forensic report is deemed too old.When I met him he said he was bipolar but he seemed o.k.(to me) He was on lithium. Anyway... after the hair folicle test result, the judge ordered an exchange of the kids at the place for supervised visitation. Once he picked them up however, he was free to take them to Maryland, where he lives with his girlfriend in his girlfriends mothers house, his philosophy being that if he picked them up not high they would be safe!  

Last summer in August, I recieved a terrifying phone call from my son saying he was in the car with the girlfriend, she bounced them off guard rails and slammed them into a parked car! I did a background check on her. She had 3 DWI's had been in jail, was on probation, has a revoked drivers licence, lost custody of her son because of child endangerment has a stay away from her sons school and was investigated repeatedly by child protective services. I sent this information to the law guardian who told me she did not care, it is not her job to protect the children (if you email me at stellabluek@yahoo.com, I will tell you who she is. I drove down to Maryland and slept in my car by her house. My intention was to call the police as soon as she pulled away with them. I spoke to my brother sometime before the sun came up and he said "What if you call the police and she takes them on a high speed chase and wraps them around a tree?" I was so scared then that I drove home! My lawyer told the law guardian that it would not bode well for her if something happened to my children and she had this info, so she fianally made a motion for supervised visitation. The judge ordered him visitation in nassau county only and the children can not be exposed to girlfriend. Girlfriend got another dwi last Dec., ran a light slammed into another car permenently disabling passenger and went to jail until May 9th (big deal!). Stbxh also got dwi in March of 2007. He is fighting again to take kids to Maryland again this summer! Judge says o.k. if he passes a hair folicle test! This is so very sick and bazzare to me! We put helmets on their heads and put them in car seats to keep them safe and comply with the law but the same law is forcing me to play russian roulette with their lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My stbxh is being placated at the expence of my kids well being!!!!

When you read the comments in this forum and other message boards, it is common to see complaints about New York divorce laws, the judges, the "system" and everyone involved.  But lawyers are complained about the most. 

As a lawyer who specializes in matrimonial matters, I would encourage everyone who is contemplating a divorce to interview several lawyers before retaining one.  In every profession, there are "good" and "bad" apples.  There are attorneys who litigate every issue (and thereby incur huge fees) and there are attorneys who are known for a more moderate approach, which usually means a settlement in their client's best interest.

 What most often happens is that parties in a divorce go to attorneys when they are angry, insecure, or feeling spiteful.  So their divorce cases start out with unreasonable positions, game playing, and delays.  Six months (and a few legal bills later), most rational people come to their senses, their anger dissipates, and they start to think about settling issues.  When the case is finally over, and thousands of dollars have been unnecessarily spent on legal fees, they blame the lawyers, without ever accepting responsibility.

In my firm, which is one of the largest matrimonial firms on Long Island, we offer a free consultation, and we almost never commence litigation without a concerted effort to resolve issues.  When I meet with a client, I encourage the client to deal with their emotional and personal issues and keep it out of the divorce.  I encourage clients to view their divorce as the dissolution of a business partnership, which is how many judges tend to view divorce cases.  In other words, there are assets and debts that must be fairly divided.  Parents must learn to treat each other with respect, and they must communicate with one another.  The PEACE program is a very effective in this regard. 

 The vast majority of divorce involve simple financial issues and normal parenting issues.  These cases should be kept out of court.  If you go to an attorney when you are angry and tell that attorney to "go the judge" instead of trying to settle, don't blame it on the attorney and the "system".  Be an educated participant in the process!

Sincerely,

Jacqueline Harounian, Esq.

jackie@lawjaw.com 

I am nearing my 4th year in this circus.  I gave the first lawyer I hired $20,000 and then he quit.  He refused to take my phone calls with no explanation.  His secretary told me she begged him to call me--she was fired.  My second lawyer did a few things and then she quit; the opposing attorney filed a motion for sanctions against her and she completed the paperwork needed for the divorce.  Nobody ever informed me I was divorced.  I called the County Clerk's Office on a whim and found out that I had been divorced for a month. The divorce was contested and very ugly.  I have been to the court at least 30 times, usually it was adjourned, sometimes nobody showed up but me.  It is disgusting.  To the people who fight against no-fault divorce you should walk in these shoes before you venture an opinion.   I was married for 36 years, have never so much as entered a courtroom before this and the one time that I needed the system it was not there.  What is allowed here is criminal.  I have spent 8 hours on some days sitting in the hallway of the court.  I have seen mothers' with small childred sit there 8 hours also.  This is nothing but a blatant money making deal for the lawyers and an agony for the people who are abused by it.  In May 2007 Newsday came to my home and did an interview on divorce in New York, they sent a photographer who took about 100 pictures of me and never published the article.  The Chrisite Brinkley trial has been the catalyst for all this attention.  What a shame.  I hope that she uses her resources to fight for change in this system.  It would seem the only way that might happen is for there to be a good news story connected to the divorce.  Worst of all is that if you happen to get the divorce and spend every penny you have---well, surprise, there is no enforcement of the stipulations.  I ultimately went to the Office of the Self-Represented in Central Islip and filed a Motion to Show Cause of Contempt.  I had to find a process server in another state, where my ex-husband had fled, in order to get the deed to the house.  The house, which was already half mine is all that I received in the settlement.  The reason for that is because it was made clear to me in many ways that I would not win the trial.  Grounds are not that easy to prove, a trial is very expensive and so I took the house, which I had not lived in for 2 years, simply to end the debacle.  I now have an upcoming date for a hearing because the stipulations have still not been met.  Every time I left that courthouse I was sure I would never have to go there again, but here I am headed back in August.  Simply driving into the parking lot there make me ill.  It may seem normal to many people to go to court but to many of us it is alien.  I have stood on the mile long line in the freezing winter and in the sweltering summer with all the others who have to report to their parole officer.  They have it nailed, I heard one of them say one day, " I'm telling that Judge, I only got a half hour, I got tickets to the Mets".  I bet he made it to the game.  I don't think I uttered more than 20 words in all the times I was in Court.  In the end, they tell you which lie to tell, even coach you in open court and you tell the lie and then you get the divorce.  Gives you a lot of faith in the justice system.  I am 59 years old, am considered to be sane (so far) and I cannot reconcile that any judge, state or religion is going to make such a huge life altering decision for me.  It was hard enough to make it for myself.

A question for the panelists, and anyone else with experience in this process:

In the personal stories that people have posted, I'm struck by the comments about perceived gender bias in the divorce court system. Still, there seems to be evidence for "bias" against both men and women, often depending on the whim of the judge or the particular situation the couple faces. Do you see any evidence of systemic bias, based on your professional work? Does the fault vs. no-fault debate have any connection to the vulnerability of the system to gender discrimination? And for that matter, is the divorce process currently impacted by other structural inequities that we see throughout the court systems, in terms of class and race?

Michelle Chen