Topic: Splitsville, New York: a forum on New York's divorce system

"No-Fault" is nothing but PROPAGANDA for one-sided, FORCED divorce on demand.  It provides the MOST incentive to destroy the family, and the least incentive to work through difficult issues.

Also, what most people will be shocked to learn is that NO-Fault was quietly and deceptively adopted in America by the LAWYERS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS!  And the legal business of family destruction is the biggest "growth area" of the legal system.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER TRUST A LAWYER TO DO THE RIGHT THING!  WHETHER IT IS A LAWYER IN BLACK ROBES (A JUDGE), OR A LAWYER IN THE LEGISLATURE (PASSING PERVERTED LAWS), OR A LAWYER IN THE COURTROOM / FAMILY BAR WHO MAKES THEIR LIVING AND THEIR MONEY FROM YOUR FAMILY'S DESTRUCTION!

Only a fool would believe that a lawyer who makes their living from the destruction of famlies (even if that lawyer wears a black robe) is looking out for your interests!

Almost forgot, here is a recent Concise History draft of No-fault!

http://www.notdss.com/0/Marriage%20Legal%20Materials/Concise%20History%20of%20No-Fault%209-9-06.doc

Some perspective on gender bias in child custody disputes: The child custody dispute resolution system has a long history of intentional gender bias. Before the early 1900's children were basically the property of their fathers. In about 1910 the courts started articulating a presumption in favor of custody to mothers, the maternal presumption. The push for legal gender equality roughly eliminated the formal presumption of gender bias in the 1970's and 1980's articulating a gender neutral "best interests of the child" presumption. Articulations of what is in the best interests of children, however, such as the "psychological parent" test continued to favor mothers.

Most research showed that absent serious domestic violence or abuse or neglect neither parent was more important to another. Rather, the child benefitted from relationships with both parents, especially if they were not conflicted. Those findings were behind the push in many states for joint custody.

Today, legal doctrine in custody disputes (and all family law) is formally gender neutral (and should be). Claims do persist that the "system" is biased against men or women. I am skeptical of them. There are no systematic studies of whether actual court decisions in contested cases favor one gender over another. It is very difficult to conduct such a study, as each custody case is to some extent unique. You have to control, for example, for drug abuse, mental illness, etc. to find comparable cases.   

What is pretty clear is that the great majority of children after divorce have primary residence with their mothers. More fathers than ever, however, are heavily involved in the lives of their children after divorce.

Andy Schepard 

Based upon what I have observed in New York Courts and in representing clients, the reason that there is a bias in favor of mothers in custody matters is that in most cases, the number one priority of women in their divorce is having physical / residential custody of their children. 

It is much less common to see men pursue physical custody, unless there is a significant and compelling reason to do so, such as mental illness or addiction issues.  In our society, it is a huge stigma for a woman to get divorced and not have her children.  

For men, there is no such stigma whatsoever.  Most men that I have represented are very happy to pay their child support, and have a typical alternate weekend / one dinner per week / holiday schedule with their children.  

Over the years, however, I have seen an increasing number of male clients request (and obtain by negotiation) joint legal custody and decision making rights.   There are many studies that show that men who have joint decision making are more invested in their children, pay more child support, and the children fare much better post divorce.  For this reason, I encourage my female clients to agree to joint legal custody in the best interests of their children, whenever possible.  The few instances when joint custody is not recommended are in cases where there is domestic violence, unresolved anger between the parties and/or poor communication between the parties.

The bottom line is that children benefit the most when they have the input and guidance of both parents.  This is especially true following a divorce, when the family unit has been broken apart, and children unavoidably feel confused and abandoned. 

Parents need to learn to put their children first, and that means putting aside their anger and putting their energies into settling their case as amicably and expeditiously as possible.

 --Jacqueline Harounian, Esq.

Keep it 'Fault'....

Bottom line-there is no good way to divorce but  no-fault divorce simply makes it easier for one side, usually the wife as women instigate about 80% of all divorces, to walk away with at least half or more of a couple's property even if she is the sole reason behind the divorce.

 A just divorce apportions blame for the breakdown.  You want to walk out? Go ahead but no money, no kids and no property- it's a great stimulus to stay together.  

No-fault is open season  for fleecing.

Dear Mr. Schepard,

I applaud and commend you (as well as Mr. Carlson, Dr. Demby and Mr. Mayerson) for bringing attention to the catastrophic impact that outdated divorce practices in New York State have on all parties involved. Our state government desparately needs to examine the current legislature and the way these antiquated procedures have negatively affected countless members of our communities. In a system that has evidently demonstrated that it has far exceeded its ability to best serve the people, action must be demanded now.

I feel so strongly about this matter because I am very personally affected by it. After 18 years of marrige, I was divorced in 1998, and even though we are in 2008, I am still in the throes of dealing with an embittered, verbally and emotionally abusive ex-spouse. I have desperately executed each and every one of your suggested techniques for minimizing the adverse effect of divorce on children, the most vital being not to disparage the "other" parent and consequently alienate a child's affections from that parent. However, my ex-spouse has not. Though I have "moved on" with my life, engaged in a loving and commited relationship with another man, and provided my children with a financially and emotionally solid home enviornment, my ex-spouse continues to torment me. I willingly agreed to joint custody, praying that their father would seize the opportunity to be all he could be to and for his children. Throughout the years, he has chosen to be in the periphery of their lives at best. However, I am presently facing the real possibility of having to go to court (again) to petition for sole legal custody of our 15 year old son, because I can no longer tolerate his bearing the brunt of his fathers' wrath towards me. Our daughter (now 20), who decided to live with her father at the age of 15, was the first victim of his tyrannical propaganda. Utilizing the Nassau County Family Court system and a personal attorney was a completely overwhelming scenerio and I was led to believe at that time that allowing her to move into her father's home would be best, even though I did not agree. She now grossly regrets her decision to leave my home, but due to a negative mindset towards me which her father strategically propagated during her youth, she is incapable of moving forward in life and is completely stunted in her ability to develop independence. During the past 10 years since our divorce, I have tried to maintain civil and respectful open communication with my former spouse on behalf of the children. My present attempts to keep him engaged in our son's life  (both positive and negative), has been met with either indifferrence or hostility. A direct reflection on the short comings of the divorce/legal sysytem with regard to joint parental custody (as it has impacted my situation) is that while I as the custodial parent have dealt with the joys and angsts of raising our son (and daughter), his/their father has chosen to be "a parent of convenience". As he has repeatedly stated to me, the courts have empowered him to "see the children IF he chooses to, but he doesn't have to". Mandated family/ parent counseling should have been instituted. I personally sought professional support for myself and the children ( Banana Splits/ Divorced Parents Groups, etc.) Though he availed himself of a bi-weekly visitation schedule, duiring that time no routines or quality family relationships have been developed in his home. To the contrary, my son would return to our home from "fantasyland" believing that living with me is a battle to be fought. His father has repeatedly undermined my authority and verbally defamed my character, as well as that of my domestic partner, to our son and daughter. Our children were exposed to their father's selfish and egocentric views on how I "destroyed the family". That I put my needs and personal welfare before theirs. That my engaging in a healthy, loving adult relationship with another man is detrimental to them. My attempts to raise healthy children who are compassionate, responsible, honest and confident, has met with nothing but threats, hysterical confrontation, agitation and aggravation. Our son has now entered into adoloscence and deals with typical teenage issues (school, friends, home,etc.) as he grows and tries to develop an identity and understand his role within society. This phase in development is difficult enough to navigate without the disruptive imput of an embittered parent. My attempts to gain his father's support when our son is behaving inappropriately or is verbally provocative, have given the father the opportunity to present himself as a "knight in white armor"- the person who comes to battle me on his behalf. As a result, my son views my attempts to provide love, structure and support as a threat, and has now become verbally and emotionally abusive towards me. My son has now left my home and gone to spend the summer with his father. I am distrught with the knowledge that he is being further drawn into a dysfunctional situation. I have insisted that they both enter into therapy with me, and am trying to stay in close contact with both my children. My attempts to contact their father by phone to discuss issues go without response. I do not want my children to sufferr any further with the damaging effects of the failed marrige between their parents. I will therefore wait patiently before resorting to handling the matter in court.

I once again commend you and your colleagues for bringing to public attention the plight of new York State divorcees and their children. I would greatly appreciate any advice that you can give me on how to proceed with my situation. I strongly believe that mediation and therapy can lead to reconcilliation between ex-spouses if both work cooperatively on behalf of their children to make the transition to "divorced familyhood" a reality.

I began my journey through the maze of our court system for divorce in 1998. Since then I have not only learned a lot but I have no respect for our legal system, the Judges and the lawyers in the system. From early 1998 thru late 2002 there were 10 different judges assigned to my case. Not one of which was capable of making a desision and worse if they did, (happened twice) enforcing it. I had a friend sit in the second floor area of Nassau supreme Court and hear my ex tell her lawyer that she did not have to comply as she was the children's caretaker and they would do nothing to her and she was right. My ex allienated me from my 3 kids. Everything wrong in this world was my falut. Am I angry? You bet but I am also intellegant enough to know without full reform, no fault divorce will only make it worse. I have since given up my rights to my kidsa only because I did not have any. There were 2 different law guardians and both were inefective, go figure.

I have testified in front of the Martimonial Commission and would be willing to share the text of such.  I spend upwards of $250K for my divorce and my lawyer when the divorce was granted never even gave me a copy of the divorce and even waive nmy right to review before it was sent to a judge for signeture. After I tried to get it changed and wasted more money and time, filed suit against my last attorney and was told by several law professors I had a good case only to get it dismissed by both Nassau Supreme and the Appelete court as well the later on technical issues as I did it Pro See. I was granted visitation but my ex never complied and said the kids didn't want to see me and the court accepted this. She moved out of state without the court knowing and when I brough it before the court, it took her lawyer 90 days to tell me where. Again the judge did nothing. They finally ordered the kids to NY to see me and instead of flying 2 hours they drove for 10. I did have a nice breakfast with them and never had contact with them again as I was blocked by legal manovers I could not afford to counter. I finally gave up my rights to them as I was paying $2500 a month and she didn't need that money. She inhearited over half a million and her new husband almost the same. They some the house and moved down south, bought a house for cash, new cars etc. and do not work. (they also made $350K on the house I gave her) so I* was covering her legal bills. 

Unless the legal system is reformed from top to bottom this won't change. I know of many who have been put through the wringer in just Nassau alone. It's the good ol' boys network to say the least. They all protect their own and know one can disprove it. I would be more than happy to talk about this in public and have been on TV, News 12, UPN 9, CW 11, and several cable shows as well.  

First let me share some important ponits in this NY divorce system. The first thing is before you carry on the process you have to consult with the New york lawyer regarding this. Then it is recommended that if at all possible to attend a co parental counselling with you ex. This councelling will really help to settle out more than half of the problems between you and you (ex)spouse.

===========================

Leofernando

New York Drug Addiction

These are just some ideas that have been enacted in other states to reduce the adversarial combat of divorce concerning children that have worked everywere.
Some progress has been made on some of these in New York, but not enough for me.
Its hard for me to understand what holds New York back.

---------------------------------

grace

[url=http://www.alcoholaddiction.org/new-york ]New York Alcohol Addiction Treatment[/url]

I've read with interest and some sadness all of the posts on here.  Although there are a thousand stories, the simple fact is that the majority of divorces are brought by women who have no grounds.  They are simple no longer in love and want out.  The history of custody decisions tends to give these women confidence that they can continue thier lives, keep the children, the house and recieve a faily good settlement.  Lawyers back this up.  My spouses lawyer even advertises showing a beautiful blonde next to a sports car with the liscense plate saying "WAS HIS" on it.  Dads face losing not only thier wives (we can get over that) but also a substantial part of thier assets, thier children and thier house.  This after doing absolutely nothing wrong.  With the laws requiring grounds, it gives them a way to defend thier lives.

 In my own case, the judge forced a settlement that resulted in shared parenting.  We each have the kids every other week.  It was difficult in the beginning but even my kids and my ex. now agree it was the best settlement.  I found the judge to be carring and he placied great preasures on the lawyers to get us to settle and move quickly.  The system can work.  Defaulting the system to shared parenting  instead of winner takes all has worked in a number of states.  Perhaps we should be looking in that direction.