Topic: How would you improve this team at the trade deadline?
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| metsfan4everPosts: 760Location: Join Date: December 1, 2007 10:35 AMSend Message |  June 21, 2009 9:17 AM
We're not that far from the deadline. Since everyone is into second guessing the offseason moves, let's see how good we are at identifying the best deadline targets. Without adding $20MM salary, how would you improve this team? With the contracts we have, it isn't as easy as it sounds. Guys like Castillo or Perez are not going to be paid big salaries and not play. So what do we target??? A Starter? Another LH reliever? A big Bat?? Where? You are the GM now. No 20/20 hindsight calls on Ibanez, etc. See if you can outperform whatever Omar actually winds up doing. I'll go first. I assume Peavy would never come to NY and Halladay will never be available. I'd make a run at Cliff Lee in Cleveland. He's in his prime and a quality, top line starter. Cleveland may be interested in some young talent and a smaller payroll. How about a package that includes Niese or even Maine. To beef up the offense, we'll need a corner outfielder or a first baseman. Matt Holliday will cost an arm and a leg and makes too much money. How about Adam Dunn. He can play 1st base. If Delgado returns, he can go to the outfield. I know he's lefthanded but we said that about Ibanez. He hits 40 homers a years with a .390 OBP and 100 + RBI's. I hear he'll be available. If we can add more oomph to the lineup and a quality #2 behind Johan without loosing anyone important from the roster, I say go. I would not include any top talent for Dunn but would for Lee who I consider a top starter in his prime. Who's next? | |
| captain-crunchPosts: 597Location: Join Date: November 29, 2007 7:37 PMSend Message | June 21, 2009 7:51 PM metsfan4ever wrote:
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Alright, I'll give it a go! the two main guys you would like to see the Mets acquire (Lee and Dunn) are great picks and would certainly help this team. However; In regards to Lee; I have read that the Indians, despite their record will not trade him. Now of course; it doesn't hurt to ask, but like you said; it would take a pretty impressive package to acquire him. As for Dunn, the nationals will most likely listen to offers for him and again, they will attempt to get as much as they can for him. I'm with you in regards to not giving up top talent for Dunn. In order to get a Lee (if available) , the Indians would start with Fernando Martinez, followed by Niese or Holt and perhaps Maine. I don't think Omar will need to go after a LH reliever, reports on Wagner are very encouraging that he will return sooner than expected. I am going to go in a little different direction than you. Instead of looking for the usually suspects who would demand top prospects in return. I am going to mention a few players, two SP and the another a 1st base/Outfielder. I'll start with the 1st/outfielder, whose name is Ryan Garko. He is RH and can hit for power. His contract is $446k and in his final year of his contract. The Mets would not have to give up top prospects for him like they would for Dunn. The reason I'm going this route is because I don't want to give up our blue chippers and I also believe that Garko has that edge (grit) that many of the fans on this board are looking for. As for the SP, how about these guys: Jason Marquis/Ubaldo Jimenez. Both pitch for the rockies and have done very well at coors field. Marquis record at 9/4 is impressive along with his ERA of 3.71 and he wouldn't cost the Mets alot of prospects like Lee or even Bedard would. Now Jimenez can be a sleeper, he's only 6/6 record, but his ERA is 3.73 with a K per inning and he keeps the ball in the park. giving up only 3 homers in roughly 85 innings. I know these are not big time names and I'm thinking of getting as much quality without giving up top blue chippers. Now another option and you can bet Omar will at least look into is Ben Sheets; Yes Ben Sheets. Like Wagner, reports are that he is recovering ahead of schedule and will get a good look from not only the Mets, but from alot of other teams. Now I'm not sure of the compensation aspect, but if Sheets shows any indication that he can pitch the way he did last season, when he was healthy. You can bet Omar will make every attempt to sign him, again not sure about compensation, but it certainly would allow the Mets to not give up any of their top prospects. Final point: I would love to have a Lee or even a Bedard (he's healthy again), but not if it means giving away 3 of my top prospects. the same goes for Dunn, would love to have that big bat in the middle of the lineup, but not if it means giving the Nationals a couple of our top prospects. I think Omar has done a tremendous job rebuilding the farm systems, maybe because he will use them to get a Lee/Bedard or Dunn, I don't think so. If Omar were to acquire a Garko and a healthy Sheets just for the second half of the season, I'm fine with that. I know that it wouldn't cost us too much to acquire them. That would be my approach if I were the GM of the Mets, minimize lost to fill in needs. We're not that far from the deadline. Since everyone is into second guessing the offseason moves, let's see how good we are at identifying the best deadline targets. Without adding $20MM salary, how would you improve this team? With the contracts we have, it isn't as easy as it sounds. Guys like Castillo or Perez are not going to be paid big salaries and not play. So what do we target??? A Starter? Another LH reliever? A big Bat?? Where? You are the GM now. No 20/20 hindsight calls on Ibanez, etc. See if you can outperform whatever Omar actually winds up doing. I'll go first. I assume Peavy would never come to NY and Halladay will never be available. I'd make a run at Cliff Lee in Cleveland. He's in his prime and a quality, top line starter. Cleveland may be interested in some young talent and a smaller payroll. How about a package that includes Niese or even Maine. To beef up the offense, we'll need a corner outfielder or a first baseman. Matt Holliday will cost an arm and a leg and makes too much money. How about Adam Dunn. He can play 1st base. If Delgado returns, he can go to the outfield. I know he's lefthanded but we said that about Ibanez. He hits 40 homers a years with a .390 OBP and 100 + RBI's. I hear he'll be available. If we can add more oomph to the lineup and a quality #2 behind Johan without loosing anyone important from the roster, I say go. I would not include any top talent for Dunn but would for Lee who I consider a top starter in his prime. Who's next? | |
| TimmyTuffPosts: 15Location: Join Date: May 3, 2009 10:12 AMSend Message | June 21, 2009 9:38 PM | |
| captain-crunchPosts: 597Location: Join Date: November 29, 2007 7:37 PMSend Message | June 21, 2009 9:47 PM | |
| RONHUNT33Posts: 885Location: Join Date: January 31, 2008 10:51 PMSend Message | June 22, 2009 10:11 PM captain-crunch wrote:
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Alright, I'll give it a go! the two main guys you would like to see the Mets acquire (Lee and Dunn) are great picks and would certainly help this team. However; In regards to Lee; I have read that the Indians, despite their record will not trade him. Now of course; it doesn't hurt to ask, but like you said; it would take a pretty impressive package to acquire him. As for Dunn, the nationals will most likely listen to offers for him and again, they will attempt to get as much as they can for him. I'm with you in regards to not giving up top talent for Dunn. In order to get a Lee (if available) , the Indians would start with Fernando Martinez, followed by Niese or Holt and perhaps Maine. I don't think Omar will need to go after a LH reliever, reports on Wagner are very encouraging that he will return sooner than expected. I am going to go in a little different direction than you. Instead of looking for the usually suspects who would demand top prospects in return. I am going to mention a few players, two SP and the another a 1st base/Outfielder. I'll start with the 1st/outfielder, whose name is Ryan Garko. He is RH and can hit for power. His contract is $446k and in his final year of his contract. The Mets would not have to give up top prospects for him like they would for Dunn. The reason I'm going this route is because I don't want to give up our blue chippers and I also believe that Garko has that edge (grit) that many of the fans on this board are looking for. As for the SP, how about these guys: Jason Marquis/Ubaldo Jimenez. Both pitch for the rockies and have done very well at coors field. Marquis record at 9/4 is impressive along with his ERA of 3.71 and he wouldn't cost the Mets alot of prospects like Lee or even Bedard would. Now Jimenez can be a sleeper, he's only 6/6 record, but his ERA is 3.73 with a K per inning and he keeps the ball in the park. giving up only 3 homers in roughly 85 innings. I know these are not big time names and I'm thinking of getting as much quality without giving up top blue chippers. Now another option and you can bet Omar will at least look into is Ben Sheets; Yes Ben Sheets. Like Wagner, reports are that he is recovering ahead of schedule and will get a good look from not only the Mets, but from alot of other teams. Now I'm not sure of the compensation aspect, but if Sheets shows any indication that he can pitch the way he did last season, when he was healthy. You can bet Omar will make every attempt to sign him, again not sure about compensation, but it certainly would allow the Mets to not give up any of their top prospects. Final point: I would love to have a Lee or even a Bedard (he's healthy again), but not if it means giving away 3 of my top prospects. the same goes for Dunn, would love to have that big bat in the middle of the lineup, but not if it means giving the Nationals a couple of our top prospects. I think Omar has done a tremendous job rebuilding the farm systems, maybe because he will use them to get a Lee/Bedard or Dunn, I don't think so. If Omar were to acquire a Garko and a healthy Sheets just for the second half of the season, I'm fine with that. I know that it wouldn't cost us too much to acquire them. That would be my approach if I were the GM of the Mets, minimize lost to fill in needs. Met Fan, Crunch, I'd leave this team alone. Let the weaknesses fall where they may. I would prepare for another losing season right now. Do you honestly want to deal at the All Star break all our young talent, or would you prefer to see them come up, do well or do poorly and let's see what we got for next year. I'd prefer to keep every promising young star and write this season off. I'd prefer to re-evaulate this team, do we need Reyes ? Do we need Delgado anymore ? Do we need Ollie ? Putz ? Deals can be made for most of them. Will Billy come back ? Bring up some kids now. Forget winning this year. Don't deal unless the AS break offers opportunities. Bring up the kids, forget WS and let's see what happens. I'd prefer to see the kids in the lineup, then see this so called talented team do so poorly. Time to see what the future Mets bring. I can live with it, can you ? I'm tired of Minor League teams deciding if a kid has enough talent to make it. Put the kid in there, let's see if he got it or not. The injured reserve is climbing on this team, bring up the kids. No deals, play them.
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| metsfan4everPosts: 760Location: Join Date: December 1, 2007 10:35 AMSend Message | June 23, 2009 9:23 AM
Interesting! Not one response from all the Omar haters. Really was curious what they might have suggested. As for the three of us, we took three completely different approaches. One thing in common with both of your approaches was to not part with any of our top talent and see what we have. As I read your responses, my first reaction was,"That won't fly in NY". Then I thought that may be the problem. New Yorkers require instant success and lots of stars. The truth is most NY teams get lots of stars but enjoy little success. The quote from Cora may have hit the mark best. It takes more than superstars. Is it the core or the team? In Wright, Beltran, Reyes, Santana and K-Rod, we have the players in key spots to win. We need more grit. Livan Hernandez gets banged around but he wins and in big spots. How many big plays have come from Sheffield and Cora? Maybe it's time for me to agree with you guys and think long term. We have a core of young talent to evaluate. Guys like Murphy, Martinez, Santos, Niese, Parnell, Thiele, Holt, and others could bring the energy and depth we're looking for. That success would last too. Add a piece without the disturbing that future, but not at the expense of. Look for more additions like Cora and Sheffield and Nieve and Santos. They cost little and offer lots of upside. For the record, even if Santos folds from here, I like how he plays the game. I like your approach better than mine. Let's Go Mets!!!! | |
| WestCoastMetFanPosts: 621Location: Join Date: November 30, 2007 2:52 PMSend Message | June 23, 2009 10:40 AM | |
| captain-crunchPosts: 597Location: Join Date: November 29, 2007 7:37 PMSend Message | June 23, 2009 2:43 PM WestCoastMetFan wrote:
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Despite the injuries to key players, we are only 1.5 games out. No one is going to run away with this division, so it's important for Omar the Mets brass not to panic (rewind Zambrano for kazmir trade). The more I think of it, the more I like the thought of Ryan Garko, last year of his contract ($446k) and shouldn't demand a high return of prospects (none of the top 10, perhaps Nick Evans, and 2 lower prospects). He has grit and can play 1st and outfield, let's not forget power from the rightside. Also, Ben Sheets is progressing ahead of schedule and if he shows any indication of having good stuff and is healthy again, you can bet Omar and about a half dozen other teams will be interested. The cost for Sheets would be a supplemental pick (based on his injuries and lack of playing time in 2009). So in reality, adding Garko and Sheets and keeping Martinez, Flores, Murphy,Niese, Parnell, Holt, or any of the rest of the top prospects would be fine with me. I think we should we should hold on to the prospects as well. Especially for the players like Huff and Nick Johnson that are being mentioned. These are nice players but not at the cost of some of our better prospects. Now, if it were for a shot at a Peavy or Oswalt, maybe. But indications are that Peavy won't come here and Oswalt is reported to not be on the market so it is a moot point. If we trade them now when injuries come next year there will be nothing left on the farm to bring up and help out. Besides, I think we need to look at this team in the long term. We have a solid core, if the complimentary pieces are brought in we should be a competitive team for many years. If we go for broke this year it will leave a hole in the farm system which in my opinion put the long term competitiveness in jeopardy. | |
| RONHUNT33Posts: 885Location: Join Date: January 31, 2008 10:51 PMSend Message | June 23, 2009 11:05 PM metsfan4ever wrote:
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Interesting! Not one response from all the Omar haters. Really was curious what they might have suggested. As for the three of us, we took three completely different approaches. One thing in common with both of your approaches was to not part with any of our top talent and see what we have. As I read your responses, my first reaction was,"That won't fly in NY". Then I thought that may be the problem. New Yorkers require instant success and lots of stars. The truth is most NY teams get lots of stars but enjoy little success. The quote from Cora may have hit the mark best. It takes more than superstars. Is it the core or the team? In Wright, Beltran, Reyes, Santana and K-Rod, we have the players in key spots to win. We need more grit. Livan Hernandez gets banged around but he wins and in big spots. How many big plays have come from Sheffield and Cora? Maybe it's time for me to agree with you guys and think long term. We have a core of young talent to evaluate. Guys like Murphy, Martinez, Santos, Niese, Parnell, Thiele, Holt, and others could bring the energy and depth we're looking for. That success would last too. Add a piece without the disturbing that future, but not at the expense of. Look for more additions like Cora and Sheffield and Nieve and Santos. They cost little and offer lots of upside. For the record, even if Santos folds from here, I like how he plays the game. I like your approach better than mine. Let's Go Mets!!!! Hey Met fan, If I read you right, your confident with the present team. Or are you looking to bring up the kids? I ask, contrary to others on this site , for clarification. I'm not an Omar hater, but recognize his weak decisions on this team. I do see a sinking ship here, you didn't mention it. It maybe your hoping for a comeback or miracle season as this is the 40th anniversity. Can you wait, something I've had a hard time doing. I hope your right . I have a hard time with a good team. I will bury my wishes right now if we can be a better team next year. After all, I am a Met fan, but, an extremely disspointed one.
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| RONHUNT33Posts: 885Location: Join Date: January 31, 2008 10:51 PMSend Message | June 23, 2009 11:13 PM WestCoastMetFan wrote:
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I think we should we should hold on to the prospects as well. Especially for the players like Huff and Nick Johnson that are being mentioned. These are nice players but not at the cost of some of our better prospects. Now, if it were for a shot at a Peavy or Oswalt, maybe. But indications are that Peavy won't come here and Oswalt is reported to not be on the market so it is a moot point. If we trade them now when injuries come next year there will be nothing left on the farm to bring up and help out. Besides, I think we need to look at this team in the long term. We have a solid core, if the complimentary pieces are brought in we should be a competitive team for many years. If we go for broke this year it will leave a hole in the farm system which in my opinion put the long term competitiveness in jeopardy. West Coast, I have no deals to be made. Write it off as a loss, cause this season is turning into an injury plaqued season. Not suprising at all, thought it would come into play. Theres nothing out there that can happen unless things change by the AS break. And even then, not sure I would deal ML talent. Would like to see them come up, play, play well or play bad, send them down to learn better. That's the way it should be handled.
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| BASEBALLMOM68Posts: 43Location: Join Date: December 19, 2008 4:39 PMSend Message | June 23, 2009 11:31 PM metsfan4ever wrote:
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Interesting! Not one response from all the Omar haters. Really was curious what they might have suggested. As for the three of us, we took three completely different approaches. One thing in common with both of your approaches was to not part with any of our top talent and see what we have. As I read your responses, my first reaction was,"That won't fly in NY". Then I thought that may be the problem. New Yorkers require instant success and lots of stars. The truth is most NY teams get lots of stars but enjoy little success. The quote from Cora may have hit the mark best. It takes more than superstars. Is it the core or the team? In Wright, Beltran, Reyes, Santana and K-Rod, we have the players in key spots to win. We need more grit. Livan Hernandez gets banged around but he wins and in big spots. How many big plays have come from Sheffield and Cora? Maybe it's time for me to agree with you guys and think long term. We have a core of young talent to evaluate. Guys like Murphy, Martinez, Santos, Niese, Parnell, Thiele, Holt, and others could bring the energy and depth we're looking for. That success would last too. Add a piece without the disturbing that future, but not at the expense of. Look for more additions like Cora and Sheffield and Nieve and Santos. They cost little and offer lots of upside. For the record, even if Santos folds from here, I like how he plays the game. I like your approach better than mine. Let's Go Mets!!!! Omar hater checking in, Sir! There is no help for this team this year. And Omar can just stock up on all those blue chippers in the system because no other team wants the Mets dreck. Nothing that Sir Omar can do to tinker. Omar has done a tremenous job? Let me drink some of that posters coffee please. The Captain never ceases to amaze me with his whimsical posts and love for Omar. Tatis batting cleanup. This is the little engine that couldn't. Say goodbye to .500. I am starting to yearn for days of Ellis Valentine, Dave KIngman and George Foster. Jeffy needs to cut his ties with both Omar and Jerry. Crazy season of injuries but this team didn't have it going into ST. The World Baseball Classic may have had more of an affect on the Mets than other teams. Who knows. I agree with Hunt. Just bring up the prized possessions from Buffalo and Double A and lets see what they got and don't got. | |
| GARYARIZONAPosts: 264Location: Join Date: January 8, 2008 1:57 AMSend Message | June 24, 2009 2:13 AM BASEBALLMOM68 wrote:
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Omar hater checking in, Sir! There is no help for this team this year. And Omar can just stock up on all those blue chippers in the system because no other team wants the Mets dreck. Nothing that Sir Omar can do to tinker. Omar has done a tremenous job? Let me drink some of that posters coffee please. The Captain never ceases to amaze me with his whimsical posts and love for Omar. Tatis batting cleanup. This is the little engine that couldn't. Say goodbye to .500. I am starting to yearn for days of Ellis Valentine, Dave KIngman and George Foster. Jeffy needs to cut his ties with both Omar and Jerry. Crazy season of injuries but this team didn't have it going into ST. The World Baseball Classic may have had more of an affect on the Mets than other teams. Who knows. I agree with Hunt. Just bring up the prized possessions from Buffalo and Double A and lets see what they got and don't got. I FEEL MUCH BETTER NOW HAVING READ YOUR POST. SO TRUTHFUL THAT IT MADE ME LAUGH. I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT PLAYER CAN HELP TURN THIS THING AROUND FOR THE METS. THERE AIN'T NOBODY ABAILABLE OTHER THAN CLIFF LEE. I LIKE THAT POTENTIAL ACQUISITION. HECK YEAH, TALK AND LEARN WHAT WASHINGTON WANTS REALISTICALLY FOR ADAM DUNN. I WOULD KEEP AWAY FROM MATT HOLLIDAY. DRECK, LOL, FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW MEANS "OUR GARBAGE". PITCH OLLIE, JOHANN, PELF, MAINE IF HEALTHY, REDDING AND LIVIAN UNTIL ONE OF THOSE GETS TRADED BECAUSE I CAN FEEL TOBI STONER IS ON THE MOVE TO THE BIG LEAGUES. ELLIS VALENTINE.LOL. REMEMBER, WE TRADED GEOFF READON TO MONTREAL TO GET HIM AFTER GETTING A CHEEKBONE BROKEN AND WAS NEVER THE SAME. WHAT BM, YOU NOVER LIKED LUIS LOPEZ, MATTY FRANCO OR ORDONEZ OR PAYTON? YES BASBEALL MOM......MANUEL AND OMAR NEED TO GO HOME PACKING. LET OBERKFELL MANAGE THE REMAINDER OF THE SEASON AND THEN DISCUSS BRINGING IN A TRUE MET HERO AT THE MGR. SPOT, GARY CARTER. GET RAY KNIGHT TO COACH 3RD BASE, LEAVE HOJO AS BATTING COACH, BOBBY OJEDA AS PITCHING COACH. WARTHEN NOT OKAY AS PC. BENCH COACH, CLUNT HURDLE. MATT HOLIDAY IS NOT A WORTHY FA SIGNING FOR AFTER THIS SEASON BUT GO GET ORLANDO TO PLAY 2ND BASE NEXT SEASON PLEASE. I AM AFRAID THAT THEY WILL START GOING INTO BELOW .500 TERRITORY WITHIN THE WEEK. BUT I AM SURE THAT FREDDY COUPON AND JEFFY BOY WILL REWARD OMAR WITH AN ADDITIONAL 3 YEAR EXTENSION ON TOP OF THE 4 THAT HE GOT AFTER LAST SEASON'S MARVELOUS END RESULT. SAD TO SAY BUT THERE IS NOBODY ON THIS TEAM WHO IS MAN ENOUGH OR TALENTED ENOUGH TO GO OFF ON A HOT STREAK. NOT TATIS, NOT CASTILLO, CORA IS NICE, REED UGHHH AND BACK TO EVANS, F-MART AND DAN MURPH GETTING THEIR CHANCE TO PLAY.
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| captain-crunchPosts: 597Location: Join Date: November 29, 2007 7:37 PMSend Message | June 24, 2009 6:48 AM BASEBALLMOM68 wrote:
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In the future, why don't you direct your comments about me to me, instead of another. You are quick to criticize, but you never come up with solutions. You never responded to me in regards to how you would improve this team, instead you play monday morning quarterback. Using a word "whimsical" is amusing, just because I think Omar has done a better job than you , doesn't mine I love the guy. There are better GM's out there and there are worse. Tatis batting cleanup, with all the injuries, what do you expect the Mets to do. I suppose you want Cliff Lee/Adam Dunn or any other big name player which would cost us 6 to 7 of our top prospects. You provide no substance in your post, only complaints; as you see the glass half empty. As a fan, I'm not happy with their performance. but I'm not going to take a page out of your book and bash and complaint and point out things like "we should have sign Ibanez" Again, playing the role of a monday morning quarterback is very unappealing. Instead, why don't you answer my original question and tell us how you would improve this team.Omar hater checking in, Sir! There is no help for this team this year. And Omar can just stock up on all those blue chippers in the system because no other team wants the Mets dreck. Nothing that Sir Omar can do to tinker. Omar has done a tremenous job? Let me drink some of that posters coffee please. The Captain never ceases to amaze me with his whimsical posts and love for Omar. Tatis batting cleanup. This is the little engine that couldn't. Say goodbye to .500. I am starting to yearn for days of Ellis Valentine, Dave KIngman and George Foster. Jeffy needs to cut his ties with both Omar and Jerry. Crazy season of injuries but this team didn't have it going into ST. The World Baseball Classic may have had more of an affect on the Mets than other teams. Who knows. I agree with Hunt. Just bring up the prized possessions from Buffalo and Double A and lets see what they got and don't got. | |
| Afansince1967Posts: 382Location: Join Date: November 30, 2007 2:54 PMSend Message | June 24, 2009 12:07 PM captain-crunch wrote:
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In the future, why don't you direct your comments about me to me, instead of another. You are quick to criticize, but you never come up with solutions. You never responded to me in regards to how you would improve this team, instead you play monday morning quarterback. Using a word "whimsical" is amusing, just because I think Omar has done a better job than you , doesn't mine I love the guy. There are better GM's out there and there are worse. Tatis batting cleanup, with all the injuries, what do you expect the Mets to do. I suppose you want Cliff Lee/Adam Dunn or any other big name player which would cost us 6 to 7 of our top prospects. You provide no substance in your post, only complaints; as you see the glass half empty. As a fan, I'm not happy with their performance. but I'm not going to take a page out of your book and bash and complaint and point out things like "we should have sign Ibanez" Again, playing the role of a monday morning quarterback is very unappealing. Instead, why don't you answer my original question and tell us how you would improve this team. Well, BASEBALLMOM68 is bringing it on the real as are most frustrated Mets fans not in denial. Let's just say that someone gives you a check, that when cashed, bounces. After an apology, knowing that this occasionally happens, and promises are made for getting things right. All is forgiven and, in good faith, you accept other checks from that person. Yet, they bounce as well. What do you feel if excuses are made and more checks offered? Understandably, there should be some distrust because of the past experience. This is like the current state of the Mets and their fans. The 2004 and 2005 teams played in seasons of promise which included the hiring of Willie Randolph as Manager, the emergence of home grown stars, and the signings of key FAs in Martinez and Beltran. The 2006 season was one of disappointment getting so close and hopeful expectations for the future. Unfortunately, the last two years, the collapses of 2007 and 2008, were seasons of "insufficient funds" just like checks that bounce. Why? It's because something is missing or not available despite expectations. The Philadelphia Phillies have done something in two years that the Mets don't appear able to do in four. It's called determination, grittiness, swag, execution, motivation, etc. Winning desire is caught, not taught. The fans know this principle. The Mets, as an organization, from top to bottom are missing something. It's time for a re-evaluation of strengths, weaknesses, an honest assessment of what is really needed, and the willingness towards making it happen. Pointing this out is not being negative. It's just keeping it real! | |
| WestCoastMetFanPosts: 621Location: Join Date: November 30, 2007 2:52 PMSend Message | June 24, 2009 1:24 PM Afansince1967 wrote:
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It's time for a re-evaluation of strengths, weaknesses, an honest assessment of what is really needed, and the willingness towards making it happen. Pointing this out is not being negative. It's just keeping it real!
Without being disrespectful here, let me ask you a question. How do you make an honest assessment of what this team needs when they are missing the following pieces to this year's puzzle?: Number 3 starter John Maine last year 10W - 8L Number 4 starter Oliver Perez last year 10W- 7L Lead-off hitter Jose Reyes last year .297 BA 113 RS 68 RBI 56 SB Number 3 hitter Carlos Beltran last year .284 116 RS 112 RBI Clean-up Hitter Carlos Delgado last year .271 BA 96 RS and 115 RBI Not to mention that Cora, Church, Pagan, Schneider, Martinez, Redding and Putz have spent time on the DL. (Not sure if I missed anyone, the list has been so long)
That is an awful lot of production to lose and to expect management to have contigency plans to foresee this many injuries and have suitable replacements to make up for said production in my opinion is unfair. Yes, this year is a dissappointment but expecting that the team should sustain this many injuries and not have it affect outcome and performance of the team is unrealistic. Making any long term decisions now based on how this team is playing in my opinion would be a big mistake. When you look at the big picture, we are by far not out of this race and once we start getting these guys back I think you will see a different team production wise than you see now.
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| Afansince1967Posts: 382Location: Join Date: November 30, 2007 2:54 PMSend Message | June 24, 2009 2:39 PM Afansince1967 wrote:
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The 2004 and 2005 teams played in seasons of promise which included the hiring of Willie Randolph as Manager, the emergence of home grown stars, and the signings of key FAs in Martinez and Beltran. The 2006 season was one of disappointment getting so close and hopeful expectations for the future. Unfortunately, the last two years, the collapses of 2007 and 2008, were seasons of "insufficient funds" just like checks that bounce. Why? It's because something is missing or not available despite expectations. The Philadelphia Phillies have done something in two years that the Mets don't appear able to do in four. It's called determination, grittiness, swag, execution, motivation, etc. Winning desire is caught, not taught. The fans know this principle. The Mets, as an organization, from top to bottom are missing something. It's time for a re-evaluation of strengths, weaknesses, an honest assessment of what is really needed, and the willingness towards making it happen. Pointing this out is not being negative. It's just keeping it real!
WestCoast, please stay within the context of my post. You're focussed on last year and this one. mY viw was loking at the Mets over the last four to five years and their failure at getting the job done This is why the Phillies were mentioned as team who won the WS in two years that the Mets haven't in four. | |
| captain-crunchPosts: 597Location: Join Date: November 29, 2007 7:37 PMSend Message | June 24, 2009 6:07 PM Afansince1967 wrote:
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Just because I may not agree with you or other people on this board, doesn't mean I'm in denial. That are many fans on this board that share my thoughts and look for solutions and not complain. Do you think I'm overjoyed that this team has not a WS yet, or worse yet; watching the Phillies winning it last season. You are very committed to laying out the facts and stand by them. Well, here's a fact: The Mets are a better team since Omar became GM. Is he the best GM in the League, absolutely not. Is he the worse GM in the league, not by a long shot. Your analogy of bounced checks although entertaining, doesn't make your point. The fact remains that this season, you can have Connie Mack and John McGraw along with other great managers and GM's and they couldn't have forseen the injuries and players to replace their numbers. This team needs to play hard and grind it out until they get healthy again, hopefully; make a push with 6-8 weeks remaining. The Phillies, Marlins are not going to run away with this division, luckily this is not a very strong division, so the Mets need to take advantage of this and once healthy, make a move. I have a question for you, how would you improve this team before the trading deadline. Well, BASEBALLMOM68 is bringing it on the real as are most frustrated Mets fans not in denial. Let's just say that someone gives you a check, that when cashed, bounces. After an apology, knowing that this occasionally happens, and promises are made for getting things right. All is forgiven and, in good faith, you accept other checks from that person. Yet, they bounce as well. What do you feel if excuses are made and more checks offered? Understandably, there should be some distrust because of the past experience. This is like the current state of the Mets and their fans. The 2004 and 2005 teams played in seasons of promise which included the hiring of Willie Randolph as Manager, the emergence of home grown stars, and the signings of key FAs in Martinez and Beltran. The 2006 season was one of disappointment getting so close and hopeful expectations for the future. Unfortunately, the last two years, the collapses of 2007 and 2008, were seasons of "insufficient funds" just like checks that bounce. Why? It's because something is missing or not available despite expectations. The Philadelphia Phillies have done something in two years that the Mets don't appear able to do in four. It's called determination, grittiness, swag, execution, motivation, etc. Winning desire is caught, not taught. The fans know this principle. The Mets, as an organization, from top to bottom are missing something. It's time for a re-evaluation of strengths, weaknesses, an honest assessment of what is really needed, and the willingness towards making it happen. Pointing this out is not being negative. It's just keeping it real! | |
| BASEBALLMOM68Posts: 43Location: Join Date: December 19, 2008 4:39 PMSend Message | June 24, 2009 9:11 PM captain-crunch wrote:
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In the future, why don't you direct your comments about me to me, instead of another. You are quick to criticize, but you never come up with solutions. You never responded to me in regards to how you would improve this team, instead you play monday morning quarterback. Using a word "whimsical" is amusing, just because I think Omar has done a better job than you , doesn't mine I love the guy. There are better GM's out there and there are worse. Tatis batting cleanup, with all the injuries, what do you expect the Mets to do. I suppose you want Cliff Lee/Adam Dunn or any other big name player which would cost us 6 to 7 of our top prospects. You provide no substance in your post, only complaints; as you see the glass half empty. As a fan, I'm not happy with their performance. but I'm not going to take a page out of your book and bash and complaint and point out things like "we should have sign Ibanez" Again, playing the role of a monday morning quarterback is very unappealing. Instead, why don't you answer my original question and tell us how you would improve this team. Dear Captain Crunch, First of all, your name impies that you are a child writing on this Mets blog and having read most of your posts, they are usually condescending, especially towards Hunt and AZGary + others. You really do come off as a know it all and you believe that you are the King of this site. You are not, son. That being stated it is not my job to come up with solutions. I am entitled to be a Monday Morning Quarterback! Isn't that what this site is all about? To bash and complain and give opinions? It is fun to b_tch and moan on this forum! We all have one thing in common which is the agony of being a Mets fan these past 45+ years. Did we sell our soul's to the Devil for allowing us to snatch a Championship away from the Bosox in '86? Maybe. I don't recall so many injuries to a team. Is that bad luck, bad conditioning? Aren't today's athletes supposed to be stronger and faster and better than last decade's ballplayers? Omar is disgusting. There is nothing, nothing in the farm system that thrills any of us. The farm system is depleted and I doubt that any GM would want Mets prospects. Flores, Thole, Stoner, Kunz, F-Mart. The farm system is a joke. Besides free agent signings, what has Omar done? Where are Omar's rings? This man does not deserve a free pass. He was handed Johan on a platter thanks to the Yanks and Bosox. If either of those teams wanted him they would have gotten him. The Mets would have had Gomez in one of the corner outfield spots...still no power from the corners along with Kevin Mulvey and Humber in the rotation. I think not. Lastings Milledge is a bust and I believe he is a bust because Willie destroyed his enthusiasm of playing the game with excitement. Other than Reyes and Wright, where are the prospects that have made an impact in the Majors? Don't say Parnell. Jason Bay and Kazmir are the only players that I can think of. Bad scouting. Bad drafts. In the 2000 Series aginst the Yanks I believe that Payton and Alfonzo were the only prospects that played. Ordonez from Cuba. This team has a losing image now in a beautiful, amazing ballpark. Have you been there yet? Getting Dunn and Cliff Lee are not the answers but a start. Seriously, based on their track record, what 7-8 top prospects are going to make it? I feel that these kids are destined for failure based on track record and an organization's losing mentality. This is why Minaya and Manuel need to be dumped. The Coaching house should have been cleaned out after last season. Not Minaya's fault solo but he seems to be a ****y, smug guy who did not deserve an 4 year extension at the end of last season which brings us to the Wilpon Family who are simply businessmen and Brooklyn Dodger fans. Besides Fruity Pebbles, I mean Captain Crunch and Tenille what do Hunt, AFAN, West Coast, Gary in AZ and the other "real" fan posters here think? Love, The old lady Baseball Mom/Nana | |
| captain-crunchPosts: 597Location: Join Date: November 29, 2007 7:37 PMSend Message | June 24, 2009 10:44 PM BASEBALLMOM68 wrote:
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With all due respect Baseballmom68, I have never directed an insult to you since I have been on this forum until you sarcastically made reference to me, while writing to another fan. Just the fact that you start your column by insulting my handle and you call me a child. You can go back to every column I have ever written and you will never see me writing that I think I know it all. In fact, if you look hard enough, you will see many times that I say "not sure" or "as far as I know". Please don't include others on this board, RonHunt and I respectfully disagree and agree on certain topics and as far as I know, there's no issue with us. Gary in AZ and I don't mix and that's fine with me, as I am sure it is fine with him. In regards to Omar, look at his record and compare it the years before he became GM. The Mets had losing records before he became GM, he convinced Pedro to sign with the Mets; which gave them instant crediability. That signing enabled them the sign Beltran, Wagner, just to name a few. The lack of the farm system that you have indicated is ranked 18 out of 30 by baseball Prospectus, which may not jump out at you initially, but consider this: a year before Omar became the GM, Baseball Prospectus ranked the Mets farm system at 26 out of 30. Facts don't lie and I'm not a know it all, I just do my homework before I write it down. I may not always be right and often times, I'm not. However; I am never the one to initiate confrontation unless I'm being attacked or insulted; which is the case between you and I. In the future, we can have our disagreements and although we may urge over them, we can agree to disagree. No more insults from both sides, agreed!!Dear Captain Crunch, First of all, your name impies that you are a child writing on this Mets blog and having read most of your posts, they are usually condescending, especially towards Hunt and AZGary + others. You really do come off as a know it all and you believe that you are the King of this site. You are not, son. That being stated it is not my job to come up with solutions. I am entitled to be a Monday Morning Quarterback! Isn't that what this site is all about? To bash and complain and give opinions? It is fun to b_tch and moan on this forum!We all have one thing in common which is the agony of being a Mets fan these past 45+ years.Did we sell our soul's to the Devil for allowing us to snatch a Championship away from the Bosox in '86? Maybe.I don't recall so many injuries to a team. Is that bad luck, bad conditioning? Aren't today's athletes supposed to be stronger and faster and better than last decade's ballplayers? Omar is disgusting. There is nothing, nothing in the farm system that thrills any of us. The farm system is depleted and I doubt that any GM would want Mets prospects. Flores, Thole, Stoner, Kunz, F-Mart. The farm system is a joke. Besides free agent signings, what has Omar done? Where are Omar's rings? This man does not deserve a free pass. He was handed Johan on a platter thanks to the Yanks and Bosox. If either of those teams wanted him they would have gotten him. The Mets would have had Gomez in one of the corner outfield spots...still no power from the corners along with Kevin Mulvey and Humber in the rotation. I think not. Lastings Milledge is a bust and I believe he is a bust because Willie destroyed his enthusiasm of playing the game with excitement. Other than Reyes and Wright, where are the prospects that have made an impact in the Majors? Don't say Parnell. Jason Bay and Kazmir are the only players that I can think of. Bad scouting. Bad drafts. In the 2000 Series aginst the Yanks I believe that Payton and Alfonzo were the only prospects that played. Ordonez from Cuba. This team has a losing image now in a beautiful, amazing ballpark. Have you been there yet? Getting Dunn and Cliff Lee are not the answers but a start. Seriously, based on their track record, what 7-8 top prospects are going to make it? I feel that these kids are destined for failure based on track record and an organization's losing mentality. This is why Minaya and Manuel need to be dumped. The Coaching house should have been cleaned out after last season. Not Minaya's fault solo but he seems to be a ****y, smug guy who did not deserve an 4 year extension at the end of last season which brings us to the Wilpon Family who are simply businessmen and Brooklyn Dodger fans. Besides Fruity Pebbles, I mean Captain Crunch and Tenille what do Hunt, AFAN, West Coast, Gary in AZ and the other "real" fan posters here think?Love, The old lady Baseball Mom/Nana | |
| Displaced_Giants_fan_in_OhioPosts: 81Location: Join Date: February 24, 2008 9:23 AMSend Message | June 25, 2009 1:31 AM Getting Dunn and Cliff Lee are not the answers but a start.
A start? Just exactly how much do you think our total players payroll should be? 200K+? |
